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Comparing image patterns in the Dodal and Conver Marseille-style Tarot decks

These images are to accompany a study currently under way on Aeclectic's Marseille Tarot Forum - a discussion in which everyone is encouraged to participate.

 

Knight of Batons • Chevalier de Baston • Cavalier de Baton

The Knight of Batons may be one of the most insightful cards in the deck when comparing the Dodal and the Conver, and really calls for a comparison of other early decks to try to determine what is actually depicted on the card.

Dodal: Chevalier de Baston vs Conver: Cavalier de Baton

 
Dodal Marseille Knight of Batons   Conver Marseille Knight of Batons


Jean Dodal Tarot-
Chevalier de Baston

Approximate date of publication: 1701-1713

Image: Tarot de Marseille - Jean Dodal, by Dusserre


Nicolas Conver Tarot-
Cavalier de Baton

Dated 1760

Image: Tarot de Marseille - Nicolas Conver, by Heron

 



Looking at the top half of the card, both decks are pretty similar. They show a Knight looking off at a club he holds in his left hand. He wears a wide brimmed hat, sits in a saddle, and his horse is turned to look at the Baton as well.

But on the bottom half of the card, there seems to be "confusion" on the part of both Dodal and Conver as to what is depicted:

Near the rear of the horse, both seem to indicate some sort of flowing drapery.

As often is the case, Conver has a lower ground point than Dodal. Dodal has the ground go all the way up to under the horse. Both indicate a flower shape on the back of the knee.

But what is happening with the horse's feet?

Conver seems, to my eye, to clearly show two feet, one back and one front.

On Dodal, it is hard to say at all. It looks like there may be two front feet... one on the ground where you can see the hoof touching the border, and one raised, but it is very poorly rendered if there at all.

Dodal has also added "F.P Le Trenge"... "fait pour l'etranger", "made for foreign lands", indicating the probability that his deck is designed specifically for export. Unfortunately, this addition may cut off additional information, perhaps even the bottom back feet?

Dodal seems very confused generally about the front of the horse, the shapes are large and undetailed, and make little sense.

Conver seems to imply that a draping hangs not only off the back of the horse, but skirts around the horse, covering his middle and front as well as his back.

Is it possible that neither artist knew what the front of the horse should look like?

Do you feel that either of them were successful in clearly showing the details of image?

Are there additional details about the Conver or the Dodal worth noting?

To join this discussion, please see the corresponding Aeclectic Tarot Forum thread.

Other related images:


J.B. Benois Tarot Knight of Batons   Jacques Vieville Tarot Knight of Batons


J.B. Benois Tarot -
Chevalier de Bastons

Approximate date of publication: Early 1700s

Image: Tarocco di Besancon by Il Meneghello


Jacques Vieville Tarot-
(Untitled)

Dated 1650

Image: Tarot Jacques Vieville by Heron

 

 
Giuseppe Drago Tarot Knight of Batons   Sforza Castle card - Knight of Batons


Giuseppe Drago -
Roy de Bastons

Dated: Circa 1780

Image: Unpublished


Sforza Castle -
Uncertain Title

Dated: Uncertain. Probably 1600-1800

Image: Enclylopedia of Tarot Volume II, Kaplan.

 

 
Tarot of Paris Tarot Knight of Batons    


"Tarot of Paris"-
Roy de Baston

Dated: Early 1600's

Image: Tarot de Paris by Grimaud


 

About this Marseille decks Tarot Studies: Contrasting the Dodal and Conver

This is an informal study of two of the most influential TdM (Tarot of Marseilles) decks that have come down to us from across the centuries. TdM decks, both early and recent, display a visual connection to these, and by our investigations hope to gain a deeper understanding of the development and influences that have contributed to Tarot as it is today.

Jean Dodal and Nicolas Conver Tarot decks have been chosen because, whilst similar in imagery, they also display two distinct "patterns". A question faced is whether these represent two streams of the Tarot de Marseille.

By comparing and contrasting these decks, a deeper appreciation of the subtleties that characterise the TdM patterns will undoubtedly emerge for each of us.

As we focuss on the actual detailed imagery of the cards, everyone, no matter how experienced in Tarot studies, should be able to partake of and contribute to the exploration.

(The above has been condensed from the introduction to the study, located on Aeclectic's Marseille Tarot forum pages.)

 
 
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